David Gosselin

Mar 16, 2023

Burch has set the standard for translation of the greats. No contest.

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martinmccarthy1956

Mar 16, 2023

Replying to

David Gosselin

When you published this essay David, I thought it might generate some interest among poetry lovers regarding the whole process of translation and the difference between doing it literally and doing it well. Now, having seen the response, I really must thank you again, and our Guest below, and John and Michael and everybody who participated so enthusiastically in the discussion. It’s really heartening to see how much this aspect of poetry matters to those who read it (and love it).

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Michael R. Burch

Mar 16, 2023

Replying to

David Gosselin

David, coming from you, that is a tremendous compliment. I know how strongly and passionately you feel about what we call “timeless poetry.” Hopefully you will get the recognition you deserve for favoring timeless poetry over the “flavor of the month” journals. In any case, it’s a service to the world to publish quality translations of the best poets. If I have contributed a few here and there, that makes me very happy.

1 Like

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Michael R. Burch

Mar 16, 2023

Replying to

martinmccarthy1956

David and I have had a number of conversations, over the years, about the need to publish timeless poetry over what I call “the flavor of the month.” For me, the most important poems are the ones I remember, the ones that refuse to allow themselves to be forgotten. For me, Sappho is one of the most memorable poets, even though most of her poems exist in fragments. Reconstructing her poems in modern English, however imperfectly, seems like one of the most worthwhile tasks a poet can undertake. To have one memorable translation would be rather amazing, with so many forgettable ones. To have more than one would be akin to a miracle. Thus, I will be happy if any reader likes one of my Sappho translations.

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Michael R. Burch

Sep 11, 2023

Replying to

Michael R. Burch

I recently added this new Sappho translation:

Sappho, fragment 57

loose translation/interpretation by Michael R. Burch

1a.

That country wench bewitches your heart?

Hell, her most beguiling art’s

hiking her dress

to seduce you with her ankles’ nakedness!

1b.

That country wench bewitches your heart?

Hell, her most beguiling art

is hiking her dress

to reveal her ankles’ nakedness!

2.

That hayseed tart

bewitches your heart?

Hell, her most beguiling art’s

hiking her dress

to seduce you with her ankles’ nakedness!

3.

That rustic girl bewitches your heart?

Hell, her most beguiling art’s

hiking the hem of her dress

to seduce you with her ankles’ nakedness!

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Guest

Mar 15, 2023

This is an enjoyable and thought-provoking essay in that it raising interesting questions about the practice, and indeed the art, of literary translating/interpretation. A great poem is a kind of alchemy, with some rare balancing of so many ingredients necessary if it is to hold up in an artistic sense. To translate, then, takes a particularly delicate and empathetic touch, as well as a deep connection with the original work. As to how well this can ever be achieved is probably a matter of opinion, in a broad sense as well as a specific one, but this fine and well-considered essay by Mr. McCarthy does a lot to open the debate.

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martinmccarthy1956

Mar 15, 2023

Replying to

Guest

Thank you for your comment. The idea of a poem being ‘a kind of alchemy’ is a very interesting one, especially in the context of this essay and the art of changing one thing of beauty into another of equal beauty, while remaining as true as possible to the original. It’s a tough balancing act, but I firmly believe that Michael R. Burch has achieved exactly this with his translations of Sappho.

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Michael R. Burch

Mar 15, 2023

Replying to

Guest

I agree that “a great poem is a kind of alchemy.” I have come to think of poetry as multi-dimensional writing with the three primary dimensions being Herbert Read’s sound, sense and suggestion. I also agree about the need for a “deep connection” in translation. I try to grok both the poet and the poem before attempting a translation. If I don’t “feel” a poem, I don’t attempt to translate it. How successful I am, individual readers will have to decide, but grokking a poem then trying to achieve the alchemy of poetry is how I operate.

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Michael R. Burch

Mar 15, 2023

Replying to

martinmccarthy1956

I agreed about both the “alchemy” and the “deep connection” in my reply above. One can’t claim to have equalled the immortal Sappho, but a good translation does make her more accessible to larger audiences. Readers who REALLY want to know Sappho should read her various translators (and she has many). I have made my translations free, without annoying ads or requests for money, here: http://www.thehypertexts.com/Sappho%20Translations.htm

I have also included some of my favorite translations by other translators, who include famous poets like Sir Philip Sidney, Ben Jonson, Elizabeth Barrett Browning, Lord Byron, Percy Bysshe Shelley, Dante Gabriel Rossetti, Charles Algernon Swinburne, Lord Alfred Tennyson, A. E. Housman, Thomas Hardy, Walter Savage Landor, William Butler Yeats, T. S. Eliot, Robert Lowell, Sara Teasdale and William Carlos Williams.

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jm6783685

Mar 15, 2023

Despite my woeful inadequacies when it comes to foreign languages I enjoy translating, because it’s a very good way of studying another poet closely, and because it’s a very good way of practising one’s craft without necessarily having to be inspired. Nevertheless I am amazed by how bad most translations are. And I certainly prefer my own translations to those of others, if only because they are more subservient to my own admittedly somewhat idiosyncratic tastes. That said, translation *is* very difficult. I think I’ve had a go at one poem by Sappho, but, if I have, it was a long time ago. I believe her poems are generally available only insofar as she was quoted by other writers. This is sad. And since I’ve never been quoted by anybody I would hate it if a similar fate were to befall my own work.

These translations at first glance seem to be very good. And the article certainly illuminating.

That said, there is also a difference between attempting a translation that is intended to be faithful to the original and one that intends more to be included within the corpus of one’s own work, usually because it bears some very close resemblance to it. Many of Pound’s translations are of the latter kind. And this sort of question is unavoidable: how far the translation should be *my* translation and how far transparent to the original poet? This surely depends on how strong the personality of the translator is. On the whole I tend to prefer strong personalities to weak. And perhaps this is also the case when it comes to translations.

For this and similar reasons the best translations tend to come from the pens of otherwise good, or even great, poets. And when there is some strong relationship between the two.

Robert Frost said that ‘poetry is what gets left out in translation’, but, you see, in point of fact, all poetry is translation. Since it is a translation from the language of silence. To me it seems that the translator’s job is essentially that of finding the original silence from which the original poem came, and then translating that into his own language. In other words to contact the muse anew and gently persuade her to render the poem yet again, but in a different language. Needless to say one needs to be very well-acquainted with the muse for this to happen.

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Michael R. Burch

Mar 15, 2023

Replying to

jm6783685

These are good points. I call my translations “loose translations” and “interpretations” because I do not attempt word-for-word translations. In my experience such translations invariably result in prose, not poetry. I follow the great Rabindranath Tagore, who said he needed leeway when translating his own poems into English, if he wanted to produce poetry in a second language. I do try to “grok” the original poet and poem, and strive to communicate what I got from the poem myself. But I can’t see any point in turning poetry into prose.

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jm6783685

Mar 15, 2023

Replying to

Michael R. Burch

However there is a point when it comes to woefully poor linguists such as myself since we can use such ‘translations’ as cribs.

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martinmccarthy1956

Mar 15, 2023

Replying to

jm6783685

I love your point about all poetry being ‘a translation from the language of silence’. But there is no better person than a really skilled and gifted poet to raid that silence and find what’s in it, especially when given all the clues (or Fragments) that Sappho has left there, including her uninhibited eroticism, which I greatly admire. And Michael seems to have his cue from her in imbuing her poems with a strong, unique, feminine voice. It is easy then to believe that this is truly Sappho speaking.

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Michael R. Burch

Mar 15, 2023

Replying to

jm6783685

I often refer to other translations and try to “grok” the original poet and the poem to the best of my ability. In my opinion the best way to study a poet who wrote in a language one doesn’t know is to read as may different translations as possible. Even if the translations aren’t perfect (and none are), one can get a sense of the poet. So it’s fine to use my translations as crib notes, although I hope they will seem like poetry rather than prose!

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Michael R. Burch

Mar 15, 2023

Replying to

martinmccarthy1956

For me, a translation always begins with what I think of as “communion” with the original poet. The best poets are able to communicate emotion and good readers can receive their “vibes” (for want of a better term). A good reading goes beyond meaning to something akin to communion. I really do feel that at times I have sense of who Sappho was, and how she felt. For instance, I feel that she felt so swept along by the tides of love and lust that she was not in control. There is a kind of “hopelessness” in her love poems. She was hopelessly in love and not able to think clearly. For her love was a muddle. Even in fragments of her poems, that comes through. I try to convey that in my translations.

This is why I don’t care for Ann Carson’s translations. For me they don’t convey emotion or any sense of who Sappho was. There is a world of difference between poetry and flat prose.

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martinmccarthy1956

Mar 15, 2023

Replying to

Michael R. Burch

These remarks are very enlightening regarding the whole process of translation, and also in regard to Sappho as a person. They make me want to go back and read all of her poems again, because I too have felt what it is to be swept along on a hopeless ‘tide of love and lust’ with little control over it. It’s akin to being inspired by the Muse and having no firm plan when you set out to write a poem.

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jm6783685

Mar 15, 2023

Replying to

martinmccarthy1956

I’ve been swept along on various ‘tides of lust’. I would much rather it had been love. So far that has only been imagined in my poetry.

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martinmccarthy1956

Mar 15, 2023

Replying to

jm6783685

I think our friend Mr. Yeats had a similar problem in regard to Maud Gonne. If she had loved him, he would have ‘given up poor words and been content to live’. These are the dilemma’s that drive a great poet. After all, one needs something truly real and meaningful to write about, and there is nothing realer than pain- especially the pain of unrequited love. Interestingly, our other friend Mr. Eliot found the love and, more or less, gave up writing poetry.

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Michael R. Burch

Mar 15, 2023

Replying to

martinmccarthy1956

In my opinion Sappho was the first modern poet, 2500 years ahead of her time. She was, to my knowledge, the first poet to “bare her soul” to the world. She was a confessional poet 2500 years before the emergence of Bob Dylan, John Lennon, Joni Mitchell, et al. In any case, she is well worth reading. I have a large collection of Sappho translations, including ones by famous poets, here: http://www.thehypertexts.com/Sappho%20Translations.htm

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Michael R. Burch

Mar 16, 2023

Replying to

martinmccarthy1956

On of my favorite Yeats poem is his loose translation of a Ronsard sonnet, “When You are Old.” I believe Yeats wrote it for Maud Gonne. His poem inspired this one of mine…

Hearthside

by Michael R. Burch

“When you are old and grey and full of sleep…” — W. B. Yeats

For all that we professed of love, we knew

this night would come, that we would bend alone

to tend wan fires’ dimming bars—the moan

of wind cruel as the Trumpet, gelid dew

an eerie presence on encrusted logs

we hoard like jewels, embrittled so ourselves.

The books that line these close, familiar shelves

loom down like dreary chaperones. Wild dogs,

too old for mates, cringe furtive in the park,

as, toothless now, I frame this parchment kiss.

I do not know the words for easy bliss

and so my shriveled fingers clutch this stark,

long-unenamored pen and will it: Move.

I loved you more than words, so let words prove.

Published by Sonnet Writers, Setu (India), Borderless Journal (Singapore) and Vallance Review (Canada)

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Michael R. Burch

Mar 15, 2023

I’m am honored to have Martin Mc Carthy review my Sappho translations, and thanks to David Gosselin for publishing the review, and for his suggestions during the process. Comments and suggestions are welcome here.

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martinmccarthy1956

Mar 15, 2023

Replying to

Michael R. Burch

In preparing for this essay I had the great pleasure of having to read as much of Sappho’s poetry as I could get my hands on, including all of your Fragments, from which I selected the eight above. These, to me – and I make no bones about saying it – are outstanding, given what you were working from, and would be my favourite Sappho translations. Can I ask you, Michael, which are your favourite Fragments? And why?

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martinmccarthy1956

Mar 14, 2023

I wish to thank David and The Chained Muse for publishing this essay. If anyone has a comment, I would love to read it.

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